I'm a little... disappointed that Tyrol voted to go with the Cylons. I guess I just don't understand his reason for voting that way. It's like I was missing something... a piece of conversation or something.

Also, I'm looking forward to some possible Boomer/Tyrol closure.

I don't agree with the writer's choice on Tyrol's decision to go to the Base ship. It seems really out of character.

Plus, while we have had hints and background story that he has been over to visit the base ship, I don't recall any interactions over there.

That makes the decision seem odder since we have no visual frame of reference that solidifies his loyalty towards the base ship or his loyalty to the Cylons for that matter. He accepts that he is one of them, but you don't see him partying it up on the base ship either. Besides, I don't think they have a bar over there. Tyrol would be miserable.

It was an odd choice. Maybe they'll explain it in the next episode?

Though the scene where he recognized Boomer was totally full of WIN! I am really looking forward to that conversation!

I wanted to slap the Chief silly and say "What the hell is wrong with you man?" for wanting to leave Galactica. What's up with that?

Not looking forward to he and Boomer.

Seconded, to all of it. Next week looks unmemorable.

I blame Skiffy for not committing to a fifth season. They're rushing through everything and at least before "No Exit," there was actual focus on what was going on with the Fleet, with Chief and Tigh and Anders still in the thick of everything.

I'm not sure I would blame Chief for wanting to go, if we'd been given a reason. There's no rhyme or reason to his sudden about-face.

I'm almost back to where I was at the beginning of the series. Hating all of the Cylons. And I don't think that's what the writers were going for.

What a craptacular episode.

And he was on such a great roll there.

I'm sure there was stuff taken out dealing with how Tyrol came to his decision. Maybe he felt that by fixing Galactica up with the Cylon goo, humanity would stand a chance on its own?

If not, his credibility went pretty far down in my book.

Right now, it looks like Tigh's the only one of the Fivers with any true sense of loyalty and it just doesn't make sense. Not after Chief fought tooth and nail to help put down Gaeta's mutiny.

Tory, why are you not DEAD yet?

I agree, why is Tory still alive?

The whole episode was disappointin', but the Chief votin' to go with the Cylons was just all kinds of wrong. He has his job back, he's workin' hard to save the ship, but instead of stickin' it out, he votes to bail?!?

Though, yeah, I agree, Tyrol recognizin' Boomer was great.

Only four episodes to go!

Aaron looked extremely attractive while also looking like he was totally unconvinced of the validity of 90% of his lines. Sadly, talent can only get him so far.

What the hell was that, and take the pen away from Jane Espenson!! Who was the man? He sure as hell wasn't the Chief of Awesome.

Dear Gods, what a waste of time that episode was. I was so bored.

WTFrak is up with the Chief voting to leave? That was completely out of character. I'm so confused as to why he did that. It came out of nowhere. He was so enthusiastic about fixing up the Galactica and now he wants to abandon ship? huh? [Dear Aaron, please take a break from the Brad Paisley tour and explain this to us].

But I loved how (out of the hundreds of 8 models) he recognised that it was Boomer straight away. If only she hadn't been hooking up with Cavil, I'd be rooting for them to get back together a bit more than I am.

I think there are two possibilities for the chief voting to leave.

One-They needed a split in the vote that would leave the decision to Ellen. That brings the tension between Captica and Saul to a head and give us back our Ellen Tigh in all her crazy glory. I wish that vote had more of a payoff but it was a little disappointing and leaves that choice of the Chief's unsatisfying and confusing.

Two-Our beloved Chief is not doing what is best for Galactica but is getting pay back. He has some beefs with the folks in charge and he may be doing damage to the ship and not wish to be there for the fall out. I think this is unlikely because of the reaction he had to the hull breach in "blood on the scales". It might be fun though to see the chief get pissed again and wreak some havoc on board. He can be bad-ass.

All in all I am a little disappointed with the episode, especially with how great the season has been so far. That being said, I love psycho destroy all Ellen and the whole Mom and Dad thing she and Tigh have going on. Everyone hated watching them fight yet them kissing was equally uncomfortable.

Can't wait till next week!!

In many ways I agree with all of you. I am still totally convinced that Tyrol would leave but I do have my own reasons why he would.

1. Have you seen the way he has been treated since he was revealed to be a Cylon. They will never be accepted, he has to fight tooth and nail to get anything done and it is always under this cloud of suspicion that is not warranted as Tyrol is one of the most loyal, devoted and caring 'people' Adama has had on that ship and finding out he was a Cylon did nothing to change that attitude.
2. He does not see a future with the humans on Galactica. Again, they will never be accepted. The Cylons now feel as though they are able to procreate on their own and they see their own future as one alone, away from the humans and away from Cavil.
3 There is nothing tying him to the Galactica. That died with Nicki being Hotdogs father. He has saved the ship, once again, and being made Chief by Adama was a thing of convenience for Adama and not a true acceptance or recognition of who Tyrol is and what he means to the ship, he was just the guy best suited to fix Galactica. It would have meant more to Tyrol if Adama had apologized and asked him to help him fix Galactica, doing the whole Chief ceremony didn't win Tyrol over.

I don't agree with the idea of payback. Tyrol does not feel as though he needs to get anyone back. He just wants to live and let live. His mind set will become clearer over the course of the show but this is genuinely where he is.
Tyrol would not see it as bailing. The ship is fine, Adama is fine, he does not see his leaving as bailing on the Galactica or leaving it in the lurch. He is Chief in title only, he is not a human, is not truly a part of the military anymore. Tigh will stay because his loyalty is to Bill Adama, in that aspect Ellen is correct. Tigh is still not fully accepting of the fact that he is a Cylon.
Tyrols judgement is clouded and we can see that by the fact that he ignores the pleas of Anders to stay with the ship.
All will be revealed, have patience my young apprentices....

Jane Espenson is one of the finest writers I have ever met. She was not just a writer of singular episodes but she is a true force in the breaking of stories, the shaping of each script, the development of characters and is always makes herself available for questions and discussions. Let's not forget that it was Jane who wrote the incredible episode where Adama busts the Chief down to private, one of my favorite scenes of the entire show.

Last nights episode was more of the 'information' ep like the last one. The remaining few eps will really inform this episode.

Have patience....

AD

I have no doubts that the puzzling vote on Chief's part will be explained; Espenson's pretty good at picking up the loose threads.

But mostly, a hearty thank you for that scene with Boomer - that split second scene before Chief announces her as Boomer in which you and Park LIT IT UP. Well played. Amazingly sexy as that extended eye contact brought that entire relationship roaring back to the forefront and reminding the audience how wrought and torrid that affair was.

I am POSITIVELY TWITTERPATED to see these two characters reunited.

I have to agree that that episode where the chief is demoted and one the the single best pieces of acting and writing over the first part of season 4.

I think that I am too excited to get to the end-which makes little sense as this is my favorite show-hands down. I am too eager to figure it all out.

As I read what you had to say I realized I was going for plot points like the mutiny which was so much fun to watch. What I really think is that I have no idea what to expect and I should stay mindful of who the characters that I have known are at their core and the Chief is a good guy.

Thanks for your posts and taking the time to communicate with us. My family is adopting a new puppy from a local rescue and we decided last week to name him Galen. We will post pics when he arrives.

...have patience
I'm trying... dude I truly am! *counts to 10*

But yeah, I see your point, had Adama said he was sorry and then made Tyrol chief again - I think that might have made things better. The Chief knows how to fix the ship and that's all Adama cares about it.

I guess I just don't like the idea of him being so eager to jump ship the minute someone mentions it even if they are all that's left of their people.

Ellen said an interesting thing to Rosyln - what would she do if there were only 5 people left of your entire race - that certainly adds a new spin on things.

Something I did forget to mention, which was absolutely unfair because I do think it was totally in-character of our guy to do, was that he did stand up for Sam when Tory tried to spin some BS about how they didn't really know how Sam would vote when everyone knows that Sam would have voted to stay. It would have served the majority to just steal Sam's vote for their own and the Chief didn't let that happen. I should have paid more attention to the "good" (in my mind) stuff.
The thing is, I don't really blame the writers for the information overload. They needed to do it in order to end the series and I blame Sci-Fi for that. And since I can't really think of a better way to do it within the confines they've been relegated to, I'm going to try harder to not just lob a bunch of stones.

There were plenty of great moments in this episode, even though I do maintain my opinion that it was a weak offering, especially considering what fantastic work Ms. Espenson has already given us, but I do understand and appreciate the confines the writers have been held in through no fault of their own.

Thank you for taking the time to comment and give us a little insight into what was going on. It's very much appreciated, especially given what seems to be the general feeling. It's easy to just chime in when everyone's raving, but it takes something special to speak up when the reviews have been mixed at best.

"That died with Nicki being Hotdogs father" Tyrol was Nick's father in everyhing but Biology. Can Tyrol truly walk away from his son that easily and in every sens, but one, Nicky is Tyrols son.

Thanks for your perspective, Aaron. I was really surprised at first but I can see what you're saying with regard to the Chief wanting to leave Galactica. The way you've been playing the character in the last several eps has demonstrated that Tyrol has become resigned to the way he believes he'll always be treated by the people he served and protected for years. He's the same man he's always been, but will Adama and the rest of the Galactica family ever believe that? In many ways, I can't really blame the guy for wanting to cut all ties and leave.

I trust you that these episodes will look better in hindsight. I think all of us are just getting a little antsy because there are only 4 episodes left to go.

Edited at 2009-02-22 01:13 am (UTC)

P.S. as of this moment the Leafs are beating the Canucks. Wonders never cease. Heeee. :P

LOL "My young apprentices" You're funny dude. Sure, tell a bunch of crazed Galactica fans to have patience with only 4 episodes left and nothing makes sense. And now I'm going to cry because I don't want it to end. LOL

On the other hand I see what you mean by not being accepted anymore even though he was/is the Chief. Being a Cylon takes all recognition out of everyone and puts a big neon sign on them. I saw it in the episode prior when Adama tells the Chief "human crew only." It's like "I'll accept you to work on my ship, but not the rest of your humanity killing cohorts." If that were me I'd be like "Yeah, thanks dude. I'll fix your ship then shove up it up your ass!!"

Being patient is... really hard sometimes.

Oh I get what you're saying about the Chief never being accepted, I didn't see that perspective before and it makes me feel sorry for him and makes his decision to leave the galactica so much more understandable.

However, I don't really understand why Hotdog being Nicky's father means there's nothing tying Chief to galactia anymore. I suspected that's what they were setting up, when they revealed Hotdog as the father, but really if you believe a baby to be your child and you raise it for two(?) years, is the actual genetical fatherhood that important, more important than the relationship they've built up? I just found it hard to believe that he'd leave the child to Hotdog without the possibility of checking up on them and making sure Nicky would be okay.

okay that was horrible English, I could explain it better in German... thanks for the insights anyway!

1. Have you seen the way he has been treated since he was revealed to be a Cylon.

Agreed! At first when the Chief voted not to stay I was all Tyrol WTF? But the Chief gave everything to Galactica and then when it was revealed that he was a Cylon, now no one (not even Adama, really) trust him the way they used to. That has to be tough. Plus, maybe he thought that him and Boomer could live happily ever after on the Baseship. Oh I hope so!

Having now watched the episode last night I just wanted to say that I really appreciate having your views on this ep before I watched it. The beginning seemed very choppy and was a little hard to follow and to some extent, the Chief's decision to leave Galactica did feel like it came out of nowhere. But I kept all of your excellent points in mind and was able to see the logic in his decision - though I'm glad they haven't all up and left yet.

I thought the moment at the end with Laura & Bill when they noticed the Cylons commemorating their own in the hallway was very telling. The human population may not be ready to accept the Cylons but I think Sam's right, the Cylons need to stay with the fleet - they're all stronger together than they are alone.

WAH! Why does Tyrol vote to LEAVE the ship & join the cylons?? what? What's going on?? He JUST got reinstated back to his old position! AND when is it EVER going to be revealed that Tory killed Callie!??! WAH!!! What I WANT to happen is that I want Tory to get busted about killing Callie and Chief to kill her (cause I TOTALLY HATE HER CHARACTER!!).
Hmmm...the Boomer/Chief thing...I don't know HOW to feel about that. It's like, it STARTED with them together, but I don't know how you ever forgive Boomer for shooting Adama!! That was the CRAZIEST thing EVER. ooooh! I just had an idea--maybe BOOMER will somehow KNOW about Callie & tell Chief??

Well, with Boomer shooting Adama, I just think about it this way: she didn't actually do it on purpose. Her programming took over. I mean, I have to say she did her darndest to try and stop it: she shot herself!

Of all the things Boomer's done, I don't think shooting Adama can really be laid at her feet. She didn't know what she was doing and I felt nothing but pity for her until season three, when she dropped into what seemed to be a recurring theme for the entire Cylon race by blaming the humans for how they turned out.

It really does mirror a lot of what goes on in the world today and why it's so screwed up. Nobody seems to want to take personal responsibility for their actions anymore and the Cylons have been doing that since day one. That's why I enjoyed the Natalie character so much and why I've pretty much lost all respect and sympathy for Boomer, who seems to gravitate toward anyone who won't make her take individual responsibility for what she's done since resurrecting after being killed by Cally.

Interesting discussion...

My overall impression of Tyrol this half season is one of near-silent strength. He seems quietly competent, observing, assembling/internalizing info and evaluating. When there's a revelation, his reaction seems to be, "Uh-huh, that makes sense, not a shock..."

Wonder if Tyrol's still waters will stay deep, or if he's due for a ride on the rapids?

I've always found Jane Espenson's writing to be extremely uneven (everything I've seen of hers, not just Galactica), so the episode didn't surprise me. But when she writes well, like she did in some of the scenes in "Deadlock", she can really bring it.

Tyrol's decision did come as a surprise, because I felt that the Chief was one of the most devoted characters to the human race. I see Tigh's devotion largely to Adama, and Sam's to Starbuck. But in considering it again it makes sense; he's done all he can for the humans, he feels like he lost any human connection he had, and it's time for him to move on. In many ways I think he thinks he'll never regain what he had as a human, and with the Cylons he'll be able to start all over again. And, you know, be kinda worshipped as a God. I think what startled me the most was how vehement he was in his choice to leave.

Poor guy...I hope he finds some happiness with Boomer, but I have a feeling that's going to crash and burn pretty quickly.

~k

Hi, Aaron:

Want to start off by saying how much my wife and I have enjoyed your work on Battlestar Galactica. Since the beginning, we've found Chief to be one of the most complex and interesting characters on the program, and have been blown away by your portrayal of him. In a program known for its pseudo documentary-style performances, you consistently deliver some of the best verite acting on the show -- incredibly, really, given how difficult that style is and all the talent BSG has. Thanks for doing your (huge) part in entertaining my family so well since the fall of 2003. My wife and I look forward to following your post-BSG career; we hope you achieve your dream of landing an Arrested Development-esque gig someday.

Anyway, my post regards Chief's role in the greater, supernatural mythology of BSG, and whether we will see that role come to the foreground -- rather than stay in the Opera House background -- before the series' end. Previous to Season 4, Ronald Moore and company put much effort into developing a unique post-modern mystical framework for the show, borrowing heavily from Greek myth and, as far as my wife and I theorize, associating the Final Five with members of the Olympian Pantheon.

We identify Chief with Hephaestus, the Olympians' young (relative to Zeus and Hera, whom we identify as Saul and Ellen, respectively), blue collar, techno-mage -- and one of our favorite deities. Chief's miraculous ex nihilo creation of the Blackbird, ability to shape up Galactica's collection of rotting Vipers and Raptors to fighting trim, genius idea to fuse Basestar and Galactica materials to repair Adama's ship, and his now recently-revealed brilliance in re-developing the Thirteenth Colony's resurrection technology, etc., firmly, in our opinion, fashions him into a unique riff on the Working Man of the Greek gods. And it's led us to believe that Chief has been accessing bits and bits of the supernatural abilities that he, as well as the other Final Fives, possess in their Opera House forms.

Aside from Chief's recent repair work and Sam Anders' brief complements on Chief's forgotten scientific uber-genius, we haven't seen much in the way of associating Chief with, or developing Chief as, an avatar of Hephaestus -- there's been no Opera House manipulations since Ellen, as disclosed by Ronald Moore, reached out (and struck down) D'Anna; no following the mystical call to any places of spiritual import like the Temple of the Five, or the reverential parting of its impenetrable doors at Chief's mere touch. Nothing like that at all, which is dismaying to us. We were hoping that, over time, Chief, and the rest of the Final Five, would access more and more of his Opera House nature -- take part in some vast cosmological battle or other fantastic confrontation with the higher forms of other characters on the show (Cavil/Ares, the Head characters, etc.), assuming there are any. But there has not been any indication that we will. Without spoiling too much, can you let us know if we will, and, if so, will Chief Hephaestus (or whatever Lord of Kobol he may be), be kicking ass and taking names in a godly way?

Thanks, Aaron.

Be well and good luck in your future endeavors,

Rich

Focusing on Chief related things (because you don't want to hear my rant about Ellen) my only issue with the episode is that the way the crew and Adama have treated the Chief has seriously hit the relationship between Galen and Galactica.
Through much of the series I've loved the way the Adama and Chief love and care for Galactica, and that the treatment he's received would drive the Chief away from her is really sad.

There were a few things that made his decision ring false to me, in spite of all he's been through.

He's a loyal guy, and the ship is in the middle of repairs he has promised to do. Tory wants to leave within the hour. He would be leaving the human race to die. He may be Cylon, but he's not Cavil. Even if he finishes the repair there's a big risk of it.

Tyrol doesn't remember it, but he was born and grew up among Cylons who lived and embraced the human style of life. He flew for 2,000 years to stop a war and helped create new Cylons and taught them to embrace their humanity until their own memories of their upbringing were removed. After that, they embraced their machine nature, wiping out humanity, living an austere life on ships with projections for comfort, sharing memories with their model. A foreign life to how Tyrol lived in any of his 3 lives.

In his 3rd life he had false memories of growing up human, and then real memories of living as human. These still feel real to him.

What does he have in common with his 3 creations he doesn't remember creating? He loved Boomer once, when she thought she was human. When he gets his memories back, he will feel a bond with the other 4 but he does not feel that yet. He has yet to learn what Tory did to him, either.

And Nicky. Sure, he's not the bio-daddy. But he has raised this kid for almost 2 years. Don't tell me he could just walk away. Ok, you are telling me. But it still rings odd to me.

Tory, who is not nearly as well developed a character as Tyrol, is easier to play as somebody who always felt outcast, and is thrilled to learn she's a secret superhero. I don't see Tyrol as enjoying that.

And then there is Anders. Anders knows so much more than you, and he thinks it is vital to stay, he uses his dying breath it seems, to tell you. Now Ellen should know too, but she doesn't say so if she does. So yes, he's been badly treated. He can go live with the Cylons -- as members of the fleet -- if he wants to escape bad treatment by humans and live with his creations and friends who would revere him. No need to jump away. Jump away if Cavil attacks perhaps, but not before.